1 00:00:08,300 --> 00:00:17,279 [Music] 2 00:00:30,339 --> 00:00:21,330 welcome to the sad reality with Rose 3 00:00:39,160 --> 00:00:30,349 Valentine two paradigms questioned and 4 00:00:46,750 --> 00:00:39,170 now hi everybody this is firoozeh today 5 00:00:48,190 --> 00:00:46,760 is March 27th 2018 and unfortunately I 6 00:00:51,910 --> 00:00:48,200 am here alone today 7 00:00:55,810 --> 00:00:51,920 Kate Valentine can't be with us but we 8 00:01:00,550 --> 00:00:55,820 have still a very very interesting show 9 00:01:04,119 --> 00:01:00,560 for everybody today I'm gonna start off 10 00:01:08,109 --> 00:01:04,129 by talking a little bit about when I was 11 00:01:12,100 --> 00:01:08,119 11 or 12 and 10 people used to ask me 12 00:01:14,770 --> 00:01:12,110 what I wanted to be when I grew up and I 13 00:01:17,530 --> 00:01:14,780 always had a smart aleck answer to them 14 00:01:19,450 --> 00:01:17,540 I was a real smart aleck kid and when 15 00:01:21,130 --> 00:01:19,460 didn't know the guy they were guy who 16 00:01:23,050 --> 00:01:21,140 lived around the corner delivered bread 17 00:01:25,750 --> 00:01:23,060 hey so what are you going to want to be 18 00:01:28,270 --> 00:01:25,760 when you grow up and I would say I'd 19 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:28,280 like to be a theoretical astrophysicist 20 00:01:33,580 --> 00:01:31,130 or a cosmologists and that would just 21 00:01:36,510 --> 00:01:33,590 set him just set him away and and that 22 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:36,520 would be the end of that discussion so 23 00:01:41,230 --> 00:01:39,050 what I would like to talk about a little 24 00:01:44,969 --> 00:01:41,240 bit before introducing our very 25 00:01:48,100 --> 00:01:44,979 wonderful guest is what cosmology is 26 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:48,110 well there are basically two things that 27 00:01:54,399 --> 00:01:51,890 cosmology is in science the first one is 28 00:01:57,130 --> 00:01:54,409 it's a branch of metaphysics that deals 29 00:02:00,130 --> 00:01:57,140 with the nature of the universe 30 00:02:02,649 --> 00:02:00,140 and a theory or doctrine describing the 31 00:02:04,359 --> 00:02:02,659 natural order of the universe but the 32 00:02:07,210 --> 00:02:04,369 second thing is a branch of astronomy 33 00:02:09,940 --> 00:02:07,220 that deals with the origin structure and 34 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:09,950 space-time relationships of the universe 35 00:02:16,089 --> 00:02:12,530 and a theory dealing with any of these 36 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:16,099 so that's what cosmology is and we're 37 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:19,610 going to be getting into cosmology 38 00:02:25,780 --> 00:02:22,850 and word study the etymology on today's 39 00:02:29,530 --> 00:02:25,790 show we will look at the development of 40 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:29,540 our cultural cosmologies from the end of 41 00:02:37,570 --> 00:02:33,410 the Ice Age which was more than 12,000 42 00:02:40,570 --> 00:02:37,580 years ago to today where we have some 43 00:02:43,390 --> 00:02:40,580 people who have a fixation on UFOs 44 00:02:46,150 --> 00:02:43,400 almost like a religion and a kind of 45 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:46,160 worldwide cultural myth of aliens from 46 00:02:53,830 --> 00:02:50,330 space that we get from films to an idea 47 00:02:56,740 --> 00:02:53,840 of others as interdimensional beings and 48 00:02:59,140 --> 00:02:56,750 I use the word in two-dimensional 49 00:03:02,530 --> 00:02:59,150 loosely because I don't really have a 50 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:02,540 word that comes to mind immediately if 51 00:03:06,970 --> 00:03:04,970 we're talking about others who could be 52 00:03:09,070 --> 00:03:06,980 from another universe another time 53 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:09,080 another dimension that's what we're 54 00:03:17,170 --> 00:03:12,530 talking about here well our guests work 55 00:03:19,810 --> 00:03:17,180 is very rich in complex using language 56 00:03:23,590 --> 00:03:19,820 and symbol to decode what the ancients 57 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:23,600 thought and finding a rich coherence 58 00:03:29,140 --> 00:03:26,690 between cultures geographically that are 59 00:03:30,789 --> 00:03:29,150 far dispersed from one another for 60 00:03:33,729 --> 00:03:30,799 instance and I'm going to go back to 61 00:03:37,150 --> 00:03:33,739 words here again the very word etymology 62 00:03:40,690 --> 00:03:37,160 itself has Greek roots at the moss which 63 00:03:43,630 --> 00:03:40,700 means true sense and loggia which means 64 00:03:46,990 --> 00:03:43,640 study of so besides helping you to 65 00:03:49,509 --> 00:03:47,000 understand the origin of a word knowing 66 00:03:53,140 --> 00:03:49,519 its roots can help you understand other 67 00:03:55,630 --> 00:03:53,150 words with similar roots today we will 68 00:03:58,660 --> 00:03:55,640 mostly go for an overview and hope our 69 00:04:01,330 --> 00:03:58,670 guest will join us again for a very 70 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:01,340 detailed look at some of his ideas and 71 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:05,330 theories so without further ado let me 72 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:09,650 introduce Laird Scranton hello Laird 73 00:04:14,199 --> 00:04:11,810 hello Purusha thank you very much for 74 00:04:15,009 --> 00:04:14,209 inviting me to come on and talk well 75 00:04:16,599 --> 00:04:15,019 it's my pleasure 76 00:04:18,580 --> 00:04:16,609 I let talk a few more minutes first 77 00:04:20,170 --> 00:04:18,590 before I ask you any questions because I 78 00:04:21,190 --> 00:04:20,180 want to tell people who you are in case 79 00:04:24,490 --> 00:04:21,200 they don't know you 80 00:04:27,450 --> 00:04:24,500 well Scranton is an independent software 81 00:04:30,370 --> 00:04:27,460 designer who became interested in Dogon 82 00:04:32,350 --> 00:04:30,380 mythology and symbolism in the early 83 00:04:34,830 --> 00:04:32,360 1990s he has 84 00:04:39,129 --> 00:04:34,840 studied ancient myth language and 85 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:39,139 cosmology since 1997 and has been a 86 00:04:45,820 --> 00:04:42,650 lecturer at Colgate University he also 87 00:04:49,420 --> 00:04:45,830 appears in the unfortunately late John 88 00:04:52,629 --> 00:04:49,430 Anthony West's magical Egypt DVD series 89 00:04:56,409 --> 00:04:52,639 he he is a an Albany resident I believe 90 00:04:59,920 --> 00:04:56,419 and he has written eight books on his 91 00:05:02,469 --> 00:04:59,930 own pretty much on his own and then he's 92 00:05:05,350 --> 00:05:02,479 written several other books that he has 93 00:05:06,999 --> 00:05:05,360 been a contributor to so I'm just going 94 00:05:08,860 --> 00:05:07,009 to mention the eight that he's written 95 00:05:12,159 --> 00:05:08,870 and he can mention any of them 96 00:05:13,589 --> 00:05:12,169 throughout any of the show today because 97 00:05:15,730 --> 00:05:13,599 we want to give him as much 98 00:05:19,269 --> 00:05:15,740 advertisement for free as we possibly 99 00:05:22,179 --> 00:05:19,279 can the first is the science of the 100 00:05:25,179 --> 00:05:22,189 dogon decoding the African mystery 101 00:05:28,179 --> 00:05:25,189 tradition second sacred symbols of the 102 00:05:31,089 --> 00:05:28,189 Dogon the key to advanced science in the 103 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:31,099 ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs third 104 00:05:38,170 --> 00:05:34,490 seeking the primordial exploring root 105 00:05:40,990 --> 00:05:38,180 concepts of cosmological creation for 106 00:05:43,629 --> 00:05:41,000 the cosmological origins of myth and 107 00:05:47,589 --> 00:05:43,639 symbol from the Dogon and ancient Egypt 108 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:47,599 to India Tibet and China five point of 109 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:51,050 origin gobekli tepe and the spiritual 110 00:05:57,399 --> 00:05:53,810 make matrix for the world's cosmologies 111 00:06:00,339 --> 00:05:57,409 six the Velikovsky heresies worlds in 112 00:06:03,610 --> 00:06:00,349 collision and ancient catastrophes 113 00:06:07,149 --> 00:06:03,620 revisited seven the mystery of skara 114 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:07,159 brae Neolithic Scotland and origins of 115 00:06:14,649 --> 00:06:10,210 ancient Egypt and eight decoding Maori 116 00:06:16,959 --> 00:06:14,659 cosmology and the decoding Maori 117 00:06:19,959 --> 00:06:16,969 cosmology the ancient origins of New 118 00:06:22,119 --> 00:06:19,969 Zealand's indigenous culture Wow well 119 00:06:24,459 --> 00:06:22,129 welcome welcome we have to have a little 120 00:06:27,879 --> 00:06:24,469 clap for that all those books 121 00:06:30,459 --> 00:06:27,889 you're quite you're quite quite prolific 122 00:06:32,019 --> 00:06:30,469 there and very interesting so where 123 00:06:34,209 --> 00:06:32,029 shall we start Laird 124 00:06:35,829 --> 00:06:34,219 well I think your question about what is 125 00:06:39,700 --> 00:06:35,839 cosmology is a really good place to 126 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:39,710 start good from an ancient perspective 127 00:06:44,620 --> 00:06:43,250 okay my work began with an African tribe 128 00:06:47,770 --> 00:06:44,630 called the Dogon there 129 00:06:51,250 --> 00:06:47,780 from northwest Africa and this sorta has 130 00:06:54,300 --> 00:06:51,260 moved geographically from West Africa to 131 00:06:58,360 --> 00:06:54,310 Egypt to India then to Tibet and China 132 00:07:00,940 --> 00:06:58,370 then to Turkey then on to northern 133 00:07:03,100 --> 00:07:00,950 Scotland in the UK and most recently 134 00:07:05,170 --> 00:07:03,110 it'll move on to the Maori in New 135 00:07:06,820 --> 00:07:05,180 Zealand now when ancient coloured 136 00:07:09,700 --> 00:07:06,830 cultures are talking about cosmology 137 00:07:13,210 --> 00:07:09,710 what they're talking about is how they 138 00:07:16,300 --> 00:07:13,220 understand three processes to work one 139 00:07:18,970 --> 00:07:16,310 is how the universe was formed the 140 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:18,980 second is how matter forms and the third 141 00:07:24,790 --> 00:07:21,770 is how the processes of biological 142 00:07:27,550 --> 00:07:24,800 reproduction happen now the way the 143 00:07:30,460 --> 00:07:27,560 Dogon priests conceptualize these three 144 00:07:32,740 --> 00:07:30,470 themes they see parallelism between all 145 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:32,750 three they see that there are so 146 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:34,730 intimately similar to one another 147 00:07:41,230 --> 00:07:37,610 that they actually describe all three 148 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:41,240 themes simultaneously using a single 149 00:07:45,910 --> 00:07:43,850 progression of symbols and those symbols 150 00:07:48,190 --> 00:07:45,920 are the symbols that Carl Jung 151 00:07:53,830 --> 00:07:48,200 recognized as being the archetypes these 152 00:07:58,480 --> 00:07:53,840 are the familiar spiraling coils and the 153 00:08:00,550 --> 00:07:58,490 the various archetype symbols the want 154 00:08:03,490 --> 00:08:00,560 to say the circle with the dot that's 155 00:08:08,430 --> 00:08:03,500 the Sun glyph is one of them these are 156 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:08,440 the archetypal themes and and symbols so 157 00:08:14,110 --> 00:08:12,050 the difficulty that creates for us with 158 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:14,120 these this these symbols is that we 159 00:08:19,510 --> 00:08:17,330 can't really ask it's not really fair to 160 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:19,520 ask what does a symbol represent we have 161 00:08:24,070 --> 00:08:21,770 to ask what does a symbol represent in 162 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:24,080 relation to one of those themes right as 163 00:08:30,910 --> 00:08:28,370 in the exact well if we're talking about 164 00:08:32,050 --> 00:08:30,920 the shape of a hemisphere and we're 165 00:08:34,690 --> 00:08:32,060 talking about it in terms of biological 166 00:08:36,610 --> 00:08:34,700 reproduction then the hemisphere 167 00:08:38,650 --> 00:08:36,620 represents the expanded womb of a mother 168 00:08:41,050 --> 00:08:38,660 and that makes sense because it looks 169 00:08:42,790 --> 00:08:41,060 like it mm-hmm 170 00:08:45,340 --> 00:08:42,800 if we're talking about matter how matter 171 00:08:48,430 --> 00:08:45,350 forms and a hemisphere represents the 172 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:48,440 expansion of mass so these are parallel 173 00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:50,210 concepts if you learn one it makes it 174 00:08:56,560 --> 00:08:53,570 easier to learn the others but it's all 175 00:08:58,050 --> 00:08:56,570 all one package here and whoever put the 176 00:09:00,360 --> 00:08:58,060 package together 177 00:09:02,510 --> 00:09:00,370 I like to think that they were to a 178 00:09:04,590 --> 00:09:02,520 certain extent showing off by 179 00:09:07,020 --> 00:09:04,600 demonstrating that they could basically 180 00:09:08,850 --> 00:09:07,030 recite one alphabet of symbols and B 181 00:09:13,260 --> 00:09:08,860 simultaneously describing all three 182 00:09:16,890 --> 00:09:13,270 processes sort of like so as above so 183 00:09:19,350 --> 00:09:16,900 below kind of write that and that that 184 00:09:23,220 --> 00:09:19,360 metaphor the metaphor of as above so 185 00:09:25,290 --> 00:09:23,230 below it's trying to tell us that the 186 00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:25,300 processes that happen in the macrocosm 187 00:09:29,700 --> 00:09:27,910 the processes of the universe are in 188 00:09:31,860 --> 00:09:29,710 some way inherently similar to the 189 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:31,870 processes of the microcosm which is 190 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:35,530 where matter forms and the use of those 191 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:37,450 symbols does demonstrate that they're 192 00:09:45,390 --> 00:09:41,650 similar mm-hmm and you kind kind of got 193 00:09:48,210 --> 00:09:45,400 your start with the book by robert 194 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:48,220 temple is that where you the the jump 195 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:50,770 off point was for you you saw that book 196 00:10:02,580 --> 00:09:54,610 you read it and then had some alternate 197 00:10:03,660 --> 00:10:02,590 theories or built upon it could you 198 00:10:05,220 --> 00:10:03,670 repeat the question one more time he 199 00:10:08,190 --> 00:10:05,230 broke up and I couldn't understand the 200 00:10:10,380 --> 00:10:08,200 question okay um I'm talking about the 201 00:10:13,650 --> 00:10:10,390 early 90s when you first started to 202 00:10:16,140 --> 00:10:13,660 study this I was saying that the serious 203 00:10:17,580 --> 00:10:16,150 mystery by Robert temple was a kind of 204 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:17,590 jumping off the spot 205 00:10:24,420 --> 00:10:21,130 as in in 1975 Robert temple wrote a book 206 00:10:27,860 --> 00:10:24,430 called the serious mystery and the the 207 00:10:32,190 --> 00:10:30,030 unexplained knowledge that the Dogon 208 00:10:34,410 --> 00:10:32,200 tribe the Dogon are a living tribe in 209 00:10:35,970 --> 00:10:34,420 Africa and they have knowledge of 210 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:35,980 astronomy that they shouldn't have 211 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:38,050 because they are a modern day primitive 212 00:10:42,630 --> 00:10:39,930 tribe they don't have access to 213 00:10:45,060 --> 00:10:42,640 telescopes and one of the things they 214 00:10:48,900 --> 00:10:45,070 knew was that the bright star in the 215 00:10:50,910 --> 00:10:48,910 night sky called Sirius is really really 216 00:10:55,230 --> 00:10:50,920 consists of more than one star there's a 217 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:55,240 second dark dwarf star that we can't see 218 00:10:59,070 --> 00:10:57,010 with the naked eye it's even hard to see 219 00:11:01,290 --> 00:10:59,080 with telescopes because the dark star 220 00:11:02,310 --> 00:11:01,300 sits right in the glare of the bright 221 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:02,320 star 222 00:11:07,830 --> 00:11:06,010 so even until 1918 our astronomers 223 00:11:08,820 --> 00:11:07,840 didn't know that there was a second star 224 00:11:12,150 --> 00:11:08,830 there 225 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:12,160 somehow the Dogon have known of the 226 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:13,930 existence of the second star they even 227 00:11:18,329 --> 00:11:15,490 know the correct orbital period for the 228 00:11:20,990 --> 00:11:18,339 two stars the Dogon say there's a third 229 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:21,000 star or a third planet in the system 230 00:11:27,329 --> 00:11:22,810 astronomers are still trying to confirm 231 00:11:28,350 --> 00:11:27,339 or or deny that claim but the Dogon were 232 00:11:31,170 --> 00:11:28,360 my entry point 233 00:11:33,180 --> 00:11:31,180 I followed Robert temples bibliography 234 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:33,190 to begin with in trying to learn more 235 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:36,490 about the Dogon and that provided me 236 00:11:42,210 --> 00:11:38,890 with a lot of good material - that 237 00:11:44,759 --> 00:11:42,220 eventually went into my books one piece 238 00:11:46,650 --> 00:11:44,769 that Robert was missing because of his 239 00:11:49,199 --> 00:11:46,660 timing how early he was writing was that 240 00:11:51,889 --> 00:11:49,209 there was not yet an english-language 241 00:11:53,610 --> 00:11:51,899 translation of the French 242 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:53,620 anthropological study of the Dogon 243 00:11:57,990 --> 00:11:55,930 religion I had the advantage of being 244 00:12:00,569 --> 00:11:58,000 able to also refer to that so there are 245 00:12:02,790 --> 00:12:00,579 certain references that that he and I 246 00:12:04,710 --> 00:12:02,800 are not don't see eye to eye on but I 247 00:12:06,569 --> 00:12:04,720 think that I attributed mostly to the 248 00:12:10,139 --> 00:12:06,579 fact that he was working very early and 249 00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:10,149 I had the advantage of little help well 250 00:12:16,110 --> 00:12:13,360 that's that's very very interesting I 251 00:12:18,389 --> 00:12:16,120 think a lot of our listeners have heard 252 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:18,399 some things about the Sirius mystery and 253 00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:20,290 and some people of course are familiar 254 00:12:25,170 --> 00:12:22,959 with your work but I think that a large 255 00:12:27,930 --> 00:12:25,180 amount of others who are primarily 256 00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:27,940 interested in UFOs let us say may not be 257 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:31,600 and knowing that much just as a side 258 00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:32,290 question 259 00:12:41,010 --> 00:12:37,600 the Dogon of today how how are they 260 00:12:46,860 --> 00:12:41,020 threatened at all by you know the 261 00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:46,870 onslaught of Islam in their area well 262 00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:49,360 they live in a very remote region 263 00:12:55,740 --> 00:12:52,480 it's surmised the back in the 1500s that 264 00:12:58,560 --> 00:12:55,750 in order to avoid assimilation by Islam 265 00:13:01,050 --> 00:12:58,570 that the Dogon deliberately moved 8 266 00:13:02,900 --> 00:13:01,060 hours across the desert from anything 267 00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:02,910 that you and I would consider to be 268 00:13:09,449 --> 00:13:07,120 civilized they live they sort of eke out 269 00:13:12,689 --> 00:13:09,459 an existence as farmers and as artists 270 00:13:15,689 --> 00:13:12,699 and it's a very priestly tribe as a 271 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:15,699 culture they place high priority on 272 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:18,850 preservation of original forms 273 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:20,530 one of the reasons the tribe was 274 00:13:25,470 --> 00:13:22,810 interesting to me is because they have 275 00:13:28,290 --> 00:13:25,480 rituals like ancient Judaism they wear 276 00:13:30,060 --> 00:13:28,300 skull caps and prayer shawls they 277 00:13:32,850 --> 00:13:30,070 circumcised and they celebrated a 278 00:13:34,290 --> 00:13:32,860 Jubilee year but they have civic 279 00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:34,300 traditions that are very much like 280 00:13:39,810 --> 00:13:36,910 ancient Egypt and the traditions that 281 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:39,820 they preserve date from the very 282 00:13:43,650 --> 00:13:42,010 earliest times in dynasty and the sort 283 00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:43,660 of the boundary between dynastic Egypt 284 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:46,710 and pre-dynastic Egypt around 3000 BC 285 00:13:50,850 --> 00:13:48,370 okay Wow 286 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:50,860 they also have a symbolic cosmology 287 00:13:57,180 --> 00:13:53,530 that's a very close match for a Buddhist 288 00:14:01,980 --> 00:13:57,190 cosmology that goes along with a shrine 289 00:14:04,410 --> 00:14:01,990 called a stupa right so the Dogon make a 290 00:14:05,850 --> 00:14:04,420 very good entry point into the kind of 291 00:14:08,070 --> 00:14:05,860 study that I've been doing I sort of 292 00:14:09,420 --> 00:14:08,080 stumbled into it but it's a great place 293 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:09,430 to start because you have all of these 294 00:14:15,630 --> 00:14:12,130 pivotal references under one umbrella so 295 00:14:18,810 --> 00:14:15,640 to speak and and there is also as I 296 00:14:24,390 --> 00:14:18,820 understand from your writing that there 297 00:14:27,030 --> 00:14:24,400 is an entry not everybody is initiated 298 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:27,040 there's an initiation in the community 299 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:30,970 for the priestly class while some of the 300 00:14:37,170 --> 00:14:33,730 people the common person knows some of 301 00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:37,180 the secrets you have to be initiated to 302 00:14:43,980 --> 00:14:41,110 know all the secrets is that correct yes 303 00:14:45,870 --> 00:14:43,990 anyone in the tribe actually any person 304 00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:45,880 even not in the tribe can potentially 305 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:47,710 become an initiate in the tradition 306 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:50,410 what's required is that they have an 307 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:52,450 active interest in it it's the job of 308 00:14:58,050 --> 00:14:55,690 the student to continue to ask the next 309 00:15:00,360 --> 00:14:58,060 pertinent question of an informant and 310 00:15:03,330 --> 00:15:00,370 as long as they continue to do that they 311 00:15:04,740 --> 00:15:03,340 are if the questions they are asking or 312 00:15:07,590 --> 00:15:04,750 appropriate to what they already know 313 00:15:09,510 --> 00:15:07,600 that a priest is required to give them a 314 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:09,520 truthful answer about the next question 315 00:15:16,740 --> 00:15:14,410 so in Dogon culture there are the myths 316 00:15:18,810 --> 00:15:16,750 there is myths that are treated like 317 00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:18,820 fireside stories that are told around 318 00:15:25,740 --> 00:15:21,910 the campfire at night that presents a 319 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:25,750 lot of the very broad themes and very 320 00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:28,210 broad symbols of the tradition enough to 321 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:30,910 sort of interest a person in wanting to 322 00:15:33,929 --> 00:15:32,050 explore it 323 00:15:37,189 --> 00:15:33,939 and then from there women could study 324 00:15:39,749 --> 00:15:37,199 with women the men study with men and 325 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:39,759 anyone including the French 326 00:15:43,109 --> 00:15:41,290 anthropologist who studied them 327 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:43,119 eventually became an initiated in the 328 00:15:47,879 --> 00:15:46,170 tradition he was actually granted Dogen 329 00:15:50,309 --> 00:15:47,889 citizenship Wow 330 00:15:52,429 --> 00:15:50,319 and when he died in 1956 they gave him a 331 00:15:57,679 --> 00:15:52,439 Dogon burial Wow 332 00:16:00,449 --> 00:15:57,689 sounds a little bit like um SETI in in 333 00:16:04,139 --> 00:16:00,459 Egypt the English woman who fell down 334 00:16:07,889 --> 00:16:04,149 the stairs hit her head and decided that 335 00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:07,899 she was once the wife of SETI and went 336 00:16:16,829 --> 00:16:13,360 to live in Egypt near a suit and cleaned 337 00:16:18,389 --> 00:16:16,839 the temple of seti the second eye might 338 00:16:22,079 --> 00:16:18,399 be might be SETI the first I don't 339 00:16:23,789 --> 00:16:22,089 remember but she she stayed there for 340 00:16:25,530 --> 00:16:23,799 the rest of her life in Egypt and it's 341 00:16:27,150 --> 00:16:25,540 quite an interesting story sorry to put 342 00:16:30,299 --> 00:16:27,160 that side line but that's very 343 00:16:34,289 --> 00:16:30,309 interesting just hit me so here we are 344 00:16:35,999 --> 00:16:34,299 we're going from the Dogon who you've 345 00:16:38,249 --> 00:16:36,009 told us a little bit about but we could 346 00:16:41,549 --> 00:16:38,259 learn a lot more about especially around 347 00:16:45,210 --> 00:16:41,559 the words and how they how they move and 348 00:16:47,789 --> 00:16:45,220 from there you moved to Egypt where I 349 00:16:50,369 --> 00:16:47,799 visited several times and I find it to 350 00:16:53,460 --> 00:16:50,379 be an incredibly interesting place so 351 00:16:57,509 --> 00:16:53,470 can can we go to that to that point in 352 00:17:00,319 --> 00:16:57,519 our or overlook of the the situation yes 353 00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:00,329 now it turns out that the Dogon 354 00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:04,240 cosmology all the cosmological terms are 355 00:17:09,179 --> 00:17:06,370 ancient Egyptian words are very many of 356 00:17:11,819 --> 00:17:09,189 them are so we can use in ancient 357 00:17:13,740 --> 00:17:11,829 Egyptian dictionary to compare to and 358 00:17:15,389 --> 00:17:13,750 make sure that the Dogon word hasn't 359 00:17:17,429 --> 00:17:15,399 really changed its meaning over a very 360 00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:17,439 long period of time that the way the 361 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:19,089 Dogon priests understand the word now 362 00:17:23,399 --> 00:17:21,010 the way they pronounce it and the 363 00:17:25,439 --> 00:17:23,409 meanings they assigned to it are very 364 00:17:27,329 --> 00:17:25,449 much the same as the original meanings 365 00:17:29,669 --> 00:17:27,339 that are documented in an Egyptian 366 00:17:33,299 --> 00:17:29,679 hieroglyphic dictionary so that's one of 367 00:17:35,129 --> 00:17:33,309 the cross checks we have on the accuracy 368 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:35,139 of what the Dogon are telling us now we 369 00:17:40,049 --> 00:17:36,850 have a similar kind of cross check to 370 00:17:41,580 --> 00:17:40,059 Buddhism in terms of the the meanings of 371 00:17:44,879 --> 00:17:41,590 symbols and the concepts of the 372 00:17:45,810 --> 00:17:44,889 cosmology in Buddhism the language is 373 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:45,820 very different it's 374 00:17:51,210 --> 00:17:49,330 given mostly in Sanskrit and so you you 375 00:17:53,790 --> 00:17:51,220 can't compare word to word but you can 376 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:53,800 compare concept to concept and symbol to 377 00:17:59,760 --> 00:17:56,890 symbol and so anytime we want to verify 378 00:18:01,710 --> 00:17:59,770 that the Dogon haven't forgotten the 379 00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:01,720 actual the original meaning of a symbol 380 00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:03,280 we can check with Buddhism and Buddhism 381 00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:06,130 verifies that they're right no would 382 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:06,880 this be 383 00:18:15,690 --> 00:18:09,970 primarily Chinese Buddhism or Tibetan 384 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:15,700 Buddhism this is primarily Buddhism out 385 00:18:21,210 --> 00:18:19,210 of India that goes along with the 386 00:18:24,180 --> 00:18:21,220 Alliance shrine that's called a stupa to 387 00:18:27,690 --> 00:18:24,190 have a similar shrine so the word the 388 00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:27,700 the source I work from is a book called 389 00:18:32,730 --> 00:18:30,130 the symbolism of the stupa was written 390 00:18:35,130 --> 00:18:32,740 by Adrienne Snodgrass who is a 391 00:18:38,190 --> 00:18:35,140 recognized world authority on Buddhist 392 00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:38,200 architecture and symbolism he is a 393 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:40,510 professor with the University of East 394 00:18:49,310 --> 00:18:45,730 Sydney Australia okay well so we're 395 00:18:53,010 --> 00:18:49,320 talking about the Buddhism of India as 396 00:18:58,740 --> 00:18:53,020 perhaps emanated from the original 397 00:19:01,560 --> 00:18:58,750 Gautama Buddha who lived in the BC Arab 398 00:19:05,010 --> 00:19:01,570 what about 700 BC was the time of Buddha 399 00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:05,020 am I in the right ballpark there yes now 400 00:19:09,150 --> 00:19:06,640 the tradition actually goes back further 401 00:19:11,220 --> 00:19:09,160 than that if we trace it back far 402 00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:11,230 farther we go to a philosophy called 403 00:19:17,820 --> 00:19:14,710 samkhya which is a cosmology it's a 404 00:19:19,740 --> 00:19:17,830 companion to yoga right it was 405 00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:19,750 originally a feminine tradition and it's 406 00:19:25,770 --> 00:19:23,200 recognized as being foundational to the 407 00:19:28,980 --> 00:19:25,780 Vedic tradition the Hinduism and 408 00:19:30,420 --> 00:19:28,990 Buddhism in India so this is all alright 409 00:19:33,470 --> 00:19:30,430 all this symbolism maybe that's 410 00:19:36,900 --> 00:19:33,480 presented anywhere India China Japan 411 00:19:40,380 --> 00:19:36,910 Tibet all comes out of the same root 412 00:19:42,570 --> 00:19:40,390 philosophy and certain references only 413 00:19:44,190 --> 00:19:42,580 survived in some cultures not others 414 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:44,200 there are certain pivotal references 415 00:19:50,610 --> 00:19:48,610 that I was only able to turn up by 416 00:19:53,690 --> 00:19:50,620 looking at surviving references in Japan 417 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:53,700 in China they had been overtly banned in 418 00:19:58,460 --> 00:19:57,010 1180 by a Chinese emperor and in other 419 00:20:02,450 --> 00:19:58,470 cultures they had been distant 420 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:02,460 from certain works heads I'm sorry go 421 00:20:04,909 --> 00:20:02,970 ahead 422 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:04,919 had you looked at all at the bond 423 00:20:09,980 --> 00:20:08,010 tradition in Tibet as far as where that 424 00:20:13,130 --> 00:20:09,990 might fit in its it's just an interest 425 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:13,140 of mine Adam happening to mention yes 426 00:20:17,690 --> 00:20:14,850 only peripherally and there are elements 427 00:20:21,740 --> 00:20:17,700 of this in in most traditions in India 428 00:20:23,299 --> 00:20:21,750 if we see Zoroastrianism and pretty much 429 00:20:27,230 --> 00:20:23,309 any tradition that came out of India in 430 00:20:30,230 --> 00:20:27,240 that era has elements of this the Tomeo 431 00:20:33,409 --> 00:20:30,240 the languages of the Tamil the Dravidian 432 00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:33,419 languages are also keepers of certain 433 00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:36,799 elements of these this information 434 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:39,510 there's a subset of Dogon language that 435 00:20:45,470 --> 00:20:42,690 connects to the Tomeo the Dogon language 436 00:20:49,460 --> 00:20:45,480 is actually technically unclassifiable 437 00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:49,470 because it it consists of 17 subgroup 438 00:20:55,789 --> 00:20:52,260 languages that are all very carefully 439 00:20:58,460 --> 00:20:55,799 preserved as subsets so when linguists 440 00:20:59,750 --> 00:20:58,470 try to try to classify the language 441 00:21:02,120 --> 00:20:59,760 there's no way to do it because they 442 00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:02,130 have elements of a wide variety of 443 00:21:06,049 --> 00:21:03,600 different languages you can almost trace 444 00:21:07,850 --> 00:21:06,059 the influences of the tradition by 445 00:21:10,340 --> 00:21:07,860 following what those languages are and 446 00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:10,350 do all the people have access to all the 447 00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:13,440 languages or some people have access 448 00:21:19,370 --> 00:21:15,360 only to some of the languages 449 00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:19,380 well these subset words are part of the 450 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:23,370 everyday use of cosmological language in 451 00:21:30,380 --> 00:21:26,570 Dogon culture it's not like there is a 452 00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:30,390 secret language that pertain 453 00:21:35,510 --> 00:21:33,360 specifically to inner concepts of 454 00:21:37,490 --> 00:21:35,520 cosmology that not everyone has access 455 00:21:39,980 --> 00:21:37,500 to only the priests know about that but 456 00:21:43,220 --> 00:21:39,990 as far as the the basic subsets across 457 00:21:45,529 --> 00:21:43,230 these 17 groupings those elements all 458 00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:45,539 make up part of the language just like 459 00:21:48,860 --> 00:21:47,130 we in English we have some words that 460 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:48,870 are originated and in the French 461 00:21:55,399 --> 00:21:51,690 language some in German some in Spanish 462 00:21:57,470 --> 00:21:55,409 some in Scandinavia and other places we 463 00:21:59,000 --> 00:21:57,480 all have access to those words just the 464 00:22:03,289 --> 00:21:59,010 Dogon I've done a better job of keeping 465 00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:03,299 track of which ones came from where good 466 00:22:18,889 --> 00:22:14,580 gobekli tepe and how that was a place 467 00:22:23,700 --> 00:22:18,899 that was buried 12,000 or so years ago 468 00:22:26,220 --> 00:22:23,710 prior to the end of the last ice age and 469 00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:26,230 there a time there are times when you 470 00:22:31,799 --> 00:22:29,110 reference that as about as far back as 471 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:31,809 we can go and I'm referencing you 472 00:22:37,769 --> 00:22:34,450 loosely not your exact words so don't be 473 00:22:42,210 --> 00:22:37,779 offended that's good and I'm wondering 474 00:22:45,509 --> 00:22:42,220 about if we went underwater let's say in 475 00:22:47,430 --> 00:22:45,519 the sea is that the Red Sea that's on 476 00:22:50,190 --> 00:22:47,440 one side I've certainly been in the 477 00:22:54,450 --> 00:22:50,200 Indian Ocean on one side of India that 478 00:22:57,899 --> 00:22:54,460 would be between the Turkish area and 479 00:23:00,869 --> 00:22:57,909 India where many Indian archaeologists 480 00:23:02,970 --> 00:23:00,879 claim that there's some rich stuff from 481 00:23:06,029 --> 00:23:02,980 prehistory underneath the water there 482 00:23:09,419 --> 00:23:06,039 which stands to reason if things melted 483 00:23:13,529 --> 00:23:09,429 after the Ice Age could we learn earlier 484 00:23:14,820 --> 00:23:13,539 stuff I think we could now one of the 485 00:23:16,909 --> 00:23:14,830 difficulties is that we don't see 486 00:23:20,729 --> 00:23:16,919 written language appear until around 487 00:23:24,779 --> 00:23:20,739 3,000 BC so anything we do prior to 488 00:23:27,289 --> 00:23:24,789 3,000 BC there are we have to be 489 00:23:29,789 --> 00:23:27,299 creative about how we can justify things 490 00:23:38,849 --> 00:23:29,799 the biggest threat to the work that I do 491 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:38,859 is my own wishful nacinda Majan children 492 00:23:42,479 --> 00:23:40,330 looking up at the clouds and you know in 493 00:23:45,810 --> 00:23:42,489 the summer sky they're imagining 494 00:23:47,310 --> 00:23:45,820 pictures of animals not not clouds there 495 00:23:49,799 --> 00:23:47,320 is no actual animal there but their 496 00:23:51,539 --> 00:23:49,809 brain puts it together to to represent 497 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:51,549 something familiar and the same thing 498 00:23:56,279 --> 00:23:53,970 happens with researchers that they see 499 00:23:58,169 --> 00:23:56,289 resemblances some of which are pertinent 500 00:24:00,690 --> 00:23:58,179 and some of which are not and if you're 501 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:00,700 not careful you go off chasing off after 502 00:24:06,810 --> 00:24:03,690 what looks like a legitimate was it 503 00:24:08,279 --> 00:24:06,820 resemblance thinking that that's a real 504 00:24:11,789 --> 00:24:08,289 thing but in the end it doesn't really 505 00:24:14,129 --> 00:24:11,799 tied in anything so to prevent that from 506 00:24:16,139 --> 00:24:14,139 happening one rule I make for myself is 507 00:24:16,750 --> 00:24:16,149 that interpretations always have to 508 00:24:19,180 --> 00:24:16,760 begin 509 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:19,190 with a flat statement on the part of the 510 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:22,010 cultures that I'm studying if so if one 511 00:24:25,210 --> 00:24:23,450 of the one of these cultures hasn't 512 00:24:27,820 --> 00:24:25,220 flatly said that the thing is true that 513 00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:27,830 they believe a thing is true it's not 514 00:24:31,169 --> 00:24:29,510 fair for me to put an interpretation 515 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:31,179 forward other than that 516 00:24:38,950 --> 00:24:36,650 my job is to try to to justify the 517 00:24:40,750 --> 00:24:38,960 legitimacy of what they're saying to 518 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:40,760 check out could this be true could this 519 00:24:48,940 --> 00:24:47,570 not be true and I'm gonna move towards I 520 00:24:51,220 --> 00:24:48,950 just want to go over the different 521 00:24:55,409 --> 00:24:51,230 places that you've studied before we get 522 00:24:58,750 --> 00:24:55,419 into the some of the meat of the work 523 00:25:00,549 --> 00:24:58,760 skara brae I've been to Scarab ray I've 524 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:00,559 been to the Orkneys probably one of the 525 00:25:08,890 --> 00:25:04,210 few people in in my neighborhood who has 526 00:25:13,419 --> 00:25:08,900 but I was I was entranced by the Orkney 527 00:25:15,580 --> 00:25:13,429 Islands when I visited there and I I did 528 00:25:18,250 --> 00:25:15,590 visit skara brae and I did visit some 529 00:25:20,169 --> 00:25:18,260 standing stones I made the tour bus stop 530 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:20,179 because it was a rainy day and they 531 00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:22,010 weren't going to stop at these giant 532 00:25:26,530 --> 00:25:24,110 standing stones and I ran into the 533 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:26,540 center of them like a crazy woman ran 534 00:25:32,110 --> 00:25:29,330 around from stone to stone and ended up 535 00:25:34,330 --> 00:25:32,120 sliding down the muddy hill and went 536 00:25:43,860 --> 00:25:34,340 back to the bus all covered in mud much 537 00:25:47,890 --> 00:25:43,870 to the to the bus drivers in any case 538 00:25:51,250 --> 00:25:47,900 you see skara brae and and as as an 539 00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:51,260 offshoot of some egyptian knowledge like 540 00:25:58,270 --> 00:25:55,130 a place a small farming fishing village 541 00:26:03,880 --> 00:25:58,280 on the coast of these these remote 542 00:26:09,159 --> 00:26:03,890 orkney islands in in scotland that this 543 00:26:11,710 --> 00:26:09,169 was a school of knowledge for the 544 00:26:15,789 --> 00:26:11,720 Egyptian tradition or a tradition that 545 00:26:20,260 --> 00:26:15,799 predates the Egyptian tradition yes yes 546 00:26:22,180 --> 00:26:20,270 now to put this into context in the firt 547 00:26:27,220 --> 00:26:22,190 region of the Fertile Crescent in 548 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:27,230 southeast Turkey and western Iraq we 549 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:30,530 have at around 550 00:26:37,270 --> 00:26:33,770 10,000 BC 9 to 10,000 BC we have the 551 00:26:39,820 --> 00:26:37,280 gobekli tepe site which is a mountaintop 552 00:26:42,970 --> 00:26:39,830 sanctuary with standing stones and a 553 00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:42,980 number of beautiful carved carvings on 554 00:26:48,610 --> 00:26:45,370 the stones and so forth that it is 555 00:26:50,350 --> 00:26:48,620 representative in one way of very early 556 00:26:52,120 --> 00:26:50,360 aspects of the tradition I'm looking at 557 00:26:54,430 --> 00:26:52,130 it's the the first place we have 558 00:26:56,370 --> 00:26:54,440 evidence of it it's also the region 559 00:26:59,890 --> 00:26:56,380 where we see the first evidence of 560 00:27:05,740 --> 00:26:59,900 cultivated grains of domesticated 561 00:27:08,789 --> 00:27:05,750 animals of metallurgy of megalithic 562 00:27:11,140 --> 00:27:08,799 stone work numerous other things 563 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:11,150 civilizing skills appear all of the same 564 00:27:16,570 --> 00:27:14,450 in the same era in the same region and 565 00:27:18,130 --> 00:27:16,580 so my outlook is based on what the 566 00:27:22,090 --> 00:27:18,140 cultures are saying the cultures see 567 00:27:24,340 --> 00:27:22,100 their tradition as being an instructed 568 00:27:26,529 --> 00:27:24,350 tradition there's a civilizing plan and 569 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:26,539 the symbolic cosmology that we're taught 570 00:27:30,970 --> 00:27:28,490 hand-in-hand with each other according 571 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:30,980 to these cultures back in ancient times 572 00:27:36,789 --> 00:27:33,770 I see that starting at gobekli tepe now 573 00:27:40,149 --> 00:27:36,799 skara brae is a much later era rather 574 00:27:43,470 --> 00:27:40,159 than being eight or nine thousand BC it 575 00:27:46,779 --> 00:27:43,480 dates from around 4000 BC and after 576 00:27:50,620 --> 00:27:46,789 really the skara brae site itself I 577 00:27:54,970 --> 00:27:50,630 think is dated from 3200 BC to around 578 00:27:57,159 --> 00:27:54,980 2600 BC now there are unique elements in 579 00:28:00,250 --> 00:27:57,169 northern Scotland on Orkney Island 580 00:28:04,149 --> 00:28:00,260 unique to the United Kingdom where D&I 581 00:28:06,490 --> 00:28:04,159 DNA ties it back to the Fertile Crescent 582 00:28:10,750 --> 00:28:06,500 region at about 6,000 BC there's a 583 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:10,760 unique form of barley there's a you a 584 00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:14,450 type of sheep called Orkney sheep there 585 00:28:22,090 --> 00:28:18,289 is a type of a mouse whose DNA has not 586 00:28:24,100 --> 00:28:22,100 been definitively tested but gives every 587 00:28:26,169 --> 00:28:24,110 appearance of coming out of that same 588 00:28:28,779 --> 00:28:26,179 region there's a very similar mouse that 589 00:28:31,539 --> 00:28:28,789 exists in the that region of Turkey 590 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:31,549 there is also a burial tradition a 591 00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:33,530 complicated burial tradition that ties 592 00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:36,289 to a tradition that came out of that 593 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:38,240 same region in the Fertile Crescent at 594 00:28:43,210 --> 00:28:41,690 about that same time so there's reason 595 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:43,220 to think that some 596 00:28:50,799 --> 00:28:49,250 around 4000 BC or before we had people 597 00:28:53,890 --> 00:28:50,809 arriving on Orkney island from the 598 00:28:55,450 --> 00:28:53,900 Fertile Crescent region continuing that 599 00:29:00,240 --> 00:28:55,460 same tradition that started and go back 600 00:29:03,010 --> 00:29:00,250 to tap a on Orkney what we see are 601 00:29:05,049 --> 00:29:03,020 structural elements that are 602 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:05,059 recognizable to someone like me we have 603 00:29:08,230 --> 00:29:06,770 a series of megalithic site these 604 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:08,240 standing stones you were talking about 605 00:29:15,070 --> 00:29:12,530 and and other sites that recreate a 606 00:29:17,380 --> 00:29:15,080 series of shapes that are are basically 607 00:29:21,220 --> 00:29:17,390 the alphabet of how matter forms to some 608 00:29:22,990 --> 00:29:21,230 to the eyes of someone like me but set 609 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:23,000 on a human scale they were they were 610 00:29:29,710 --> 00:29:26,690 connected in Neolithic times at 3200 BC 611 00:29:32,770 --> 00:29:29,720 by a road that led to the skara brae 612 00:29:36,039 --> 00:29:32,780 village so it looks as if someone was 613 00:29:38,409 --> 00:29:36,049 teaching cosmology on a human scale on a 614 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:38,419 scale that students could walk through 615 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:39,770 and learn about how these processes 616 00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:43,490 happen about a hundred years later we 617 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:47,600 see agriculturally based kingships 618 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:49,250 the agriculture was also something being 619 00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:51,490 taught on orc there or it looks as if 620 00:29:55,630 --> 00:29:53,510 about a hundred years later we have 621 00:29:58,360 --> 00:29:55,640 agriculturally based kingships appearing 622 00:29:59,890 --> 00:29:58,370 at four regions around the world all of 623 00:30:03,480 --> 00:29:59,900 the same moment against no real 624 00:30:07,779 --> 00:30:03,490 background of history one place is in 625 00:30:10,529 --> 00:30:07,789 Egypt the ancient name was taru another 626 00:30:14,289 --> 00:30:10,539 place is China the ancient name was earu 627 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:14,299 another place was Ireland the name was 628 00:30:21,340 --> 00:30:16,490 our rule and another place was South 629 00:30:22,810 --> 00:30:21,350 America the term was pure Peru so we 630 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:22,820 would have naming conventions for the 631 00:30:28,409 --> 00:30:25,330 four sites that seemed to tie together 632 00:30:34,270 --> 00:30:28,419 well that is that is very very 633 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:34,280 interesting and very telling so just to 634 00:30:43,210 --> 00:30:38,450 flesh out to the end of your the end of 635 00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:43,220 your travels thus far we have New 636 00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:46,880 Zealand and the Maori and I find that 637 00:30:56,729 --> 00:30:50,240 lately there is a lot more interest in 638 00:30:59,319 --> 00:30:56,739 general in prehistoric culture 639 00:31:02,079 --> 00:30:59,329 ancient archaeology there's a lot more 640 00:31:06,549 --> 00:31:02,089 interest in general in both Australia 641 00:31:10,989 --> 00:31:06,559 and in New Zealand as places that have a 642 00:31:16,509 --> 00:31:10,999 great far longer history than was 643 00:31:18,369 --> 00:31:16,519 previously thought to be the case that's 644 00:31:20,949 --> 00:31:18,379 right there's quite a lot quite a bit of 645 00:31:22,869 --> 00:31:20,959 interest in those regions right now now 646 00:31:24,759 --> 00:31:22,879 the the Maori in New Zealand or a much 647 00:31:27,549 --> 00:31:24,769 later tradition than the one the others 648 00:31:30,009 --> 00:31:27,559 that I've been studying I had learned 649 00:31:32,469 --> 00:31:30,019 very early on in my process really after 650 00:31:34,139 --> 00:31:32,479 I wrote my first book I I understood 651 00:31:37,749 --> 00:31:34,149 that there was a connection to the Maori 652 00:31:42,129 --> 00:31:37,759 there's certain common terms that the 653 00:31:43,839 --> 00:31:42,139 Maori had with the Dogon that that very 654 00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:43,849 strongly suggested that I was looking at 655 00:31:46,709 --> 00:31:45,529 the same tradition in both places and I 656 00:31:49,809 --> 00:31:46,719 had started actually started writing 657 00:31:51,669 --> 00:31:49,819 taking notes and keeping information to 658 00:31:54,549 --> 00:31:51,679 write a book about the Maori but it kept 659 00:31:57,479 --> 00:31:54,559 getting bumped by other projects that 660 00:32:00,759 --> 00:31:57,489 seemed to be more more urgent and more 661 00:32:02,769 --> 00:32:00,769 logically the next step for a book 662 00:32:04,719 --> 00:32:02,779 so I finally now have gotten around to 663 00:32:07,569 --> 00:32:04,729 writing and publishing a maori book and 664 00:32:09,459 --> 00:32:07,579 as it turns out the Maori culture ties 665 00:32:12,999 --> 00:32:09,469 to every tradition and every language 666 00:32:15,339 --> 00:32:13,009 that I've studied you can see elements 667 00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:15,349 of every era even the gobekli tepe era 668 00:32:21,129 --> 00:32:18,799 even the northern Scotland era and so 669 00:32:22,599 --> 00:32:21,139 had I written that book as early as I 670 00:32:26,019 --> 00:32:22,609 meant to I wouldn't have been qualified 671 00:32:29,379 --> 00:32:26,029 to recognize those other connections so 672 00:32:29,589 --> 00:32:29,389 it was fortuitous as it were yes very 673 00:32:32,739 --> 00:32:29,599 much 674 00:32:35,319 --> 00:32:32,749 um I don't know if you're familiar we 675 00:32:38,829 --> 00:32:35,329 had a guest on a couple months ago a 676 00:32:42,909 --> 00:32:38,839 very nice woman very well-spoken and 677 00:32:46,959 --> 00:32:42,919 educated from Australia who was talking 678 00:32:50,949 --> 00:32:46,969 about preliterate culture and the way 679 00:32:54,249 --> 00:32:50,959 they worked on memory and although her 680 00:32:56,439 --> 00:32:54,259 conclusions in terms of spirituality 681 00:32:59,859 --> 00:32:56,449 probably somewhat different than yours 682 00:33:02,680 --> 00:32:59,869 there have been a lot of concurrences 683 00:33:04,389 --> 00:33:02,690 between your work in her work and the 684 00:33:05,439 --> 00:33:04,399 woman is Lynne Kelly with the memory 685 00:33:07,719 --> 00:33:05,449 code I don't know if you're familiar 686 00:33:08,460 --> 00:33:07,729 with that book I haven't read the book 687 00:33:11,430 --> 00:33:08,470 but I've heard her 688 00:33:13,770 --> 00:33:11,440 yes well the the things that she comes 689 00:33:16,050 --> 00:33:13,780 up with just to relate this to what do 690 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:16,060 you do and the second thing is actually 691 00:33:22,910 --> 00:33:17,650 as important as the first and the first 692 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:22,920 thing is simply that as she sees of this 693 00:33:30,620 --> 00:33:25,930 preliterate culture verbal cultures 694 00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:30,630 where memory is a very strong attribute 695 00:33:37,290 --> 00:33:34,240 that the the priestly class as you were 696 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:37,300 speaking of will have these in these 697 00:33:42,900 --> 00:33:39,970 societies to which people can become 698 00:33:45,090 --> 00:33:42,910 initiated within the tribe mostly unlike 699 00:33:49,140 --> 00:33:45,100 the Dogon who would initiate the the 700 00:33:52,260 --> 00:33:49,150 French gentleman and they have secrets 701 00:33:54,980 --> 00:33:52,270 and they are met remembered by with 702 00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:54,990 sticks and other things they have little 703 00:34:02,150 --> 00:33:58,960 memory codes that they work on and often 704 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:02,160 these memory codes work on several 705 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:05,290 different levels much as the way you say 706 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:09,610 as above so below and so they have maybe 707 00:34:14,700 --> 00:34:12,370 marks on a stick that remind them when 708 00:34:17,220 --> 00:34:14,710 they walk to the three blocks to the 709 00:34:20,850 --> 00:34:17,230 west they come to another site and they 710 00:34:22,980 --> 00:34:20,860 begin to recite that part of the 711 00:34:25,890 --> 00:34:22,990 tradition that's the first thing so this 712 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:25,900 a good deal in common there and the 713 00:34:31,230 --> 00:34:28,210 second thing that I find equally 714 00:34:35,340 --> 00:34:31,240 interesting is that these these 715 00:34:41,630 --> 00:34:35,350 preliterate cultures do not have a 716 00:34:45,990 --> 00:34:41,640 strong belief in a God per se like a one 717 00:34:51,630 --> 00:34:46,000 overriding Universal God figure and that 718 00:34:56,550 --> 00:34:51,640 it is more just a manam and I can't say 719 00:34:59,100 --> 00:34:56,560 the word menemen ism mnemonic code and 720 00:35:02,220 --> 00:34:59,110 so I wanted you to speak a little bit to 721 00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:02,230 the idea that the the Dogon don't have 722 00:35:08,340 --> 00:35:04,720 it's not that they they don't believe in 723 00:35:11,850 --> 00:35:08,350 any overwhelming spirit but more that 724 00:35:15,450 --> 00:35:11,860 that they don't have religion in the 725 00:35:16,010 --> 00:35:15,460 same way that modern traditions look at 726 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:16,020 it 727 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:18,490 well that's true the the samkhya 728 00:35:22,290 --> 00:35:20,730 philosophy that these things come out of 729 00:35:26,070 --> 00:35:22,300 is in 730 00:35:28,410 --> 00:35:26,080 Pressley non-theistic tradition it did 731 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:28,420 spawn later traditions that were 732 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:32,170 theistic but where the Dogon see stages 733 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:35,970 of creation the Egyptians see deities 734 00:35:42,660 --> 00:35:39,930 there's a process over time where what 735 00:35:44,910 --> 00:35:42,670 began as essentially scientific 736 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:44,920 descriptions so scientifically you can 737 00:35:49,380 --> 00:35:47,530 set them side-by-side both descriptions 738 00:35:51,030 --> 00:35:49,390 and drawings with scientific 739 00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:51,040 descriptions and diagrams and 740 00:35:58,520 --> 00:35:54,000 intuitively see that you have a match 741 00:36:02,790 --> 00:35:58,530 what started out as that over time 742 00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:02,800 becomes deified in certain cultures this 743 00:36:07,850 --> 00:36:05,280 is part partly as a result of symbolism 744 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:07,860 the Dogon don't have a written language 745 00:36:12,690 --> 00:36:10,330 the priests of the Dogon tribe looked 746 00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:12,700 down their nose on written language and 747 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:15,250 actually Socrates said to that I have a 748 00:36:19,550 --> 00:36:17,530 the the book I'm currently working on 749 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:19,560 will open with a quote from Socrates 750 00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:23,890 explaining that the essentially the 751 00:36:30,990 --> 00:36:27,760 evils of written language that if a 752 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:31,000 person doesn't doesn't truly understand 753 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:34,930 the subject that writing allows them to 754 00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:36,490 represent they understand something that 755 00:36:42,150 --> 00:36:39,250 they don't really understand well that 756 00:36:46,890 --> 00:36:42,160 reminds me of Buddhism to certain kinds 757 00:36:48,190 --> 00:36:46,900 of Buddhism such as the statement I'm 758 00:36:51,770 --> 00:36:48,200 not not a Buddhist 759 00:36:54,180 --> 00:36:51,780 [Laughter] 760 00:36:57,900 --> 00:36:54,190 if you don't really understand the 761 00:37:00,270 --> 00:36:57,910 subject you won't understand that there 762 00:37:01,950 --> 00:37:00,280 are great great techniques for helping 763 00:37:04,890 --> 00:37:01,960 people remember things one of them is 764 00:37:07,770 --> 00:37:04,900 this idea of parallelism where you 765 00:37:09,570 --> 00:37:07,780 describe a thing once and the 766 00:37:12,540 --> 00:37:09,580 description applies to more than one 767 00:37:15,860 --> 00:37:12,550 process that's the way the entire Dogon 768 00:37:18,780 --> 00:37:15,870 system works the way they plow a field 769 00:37:21,450 --> 00:37:18,790 goes along with the cosmological process 770 00:37:24,660 --> 00:37:21,460 the way they weave a cloth goes along 771 00:37:26,670 --> 00:37:24,670 with a cosmological process and so the 772 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:26,680 acts of daily life reinforce the 773 00:37:31,850 --> 00:37:28,330 instruction they had in the cosmology 774 00:37:35,250 --> 00:37:31,860 the self reinforcing systems basically 775 00:37:35,730 --> 00:37:35,260 same thing with language that the terms 776 00:37:39,660 --> 00:37:35,740 that are 777 00:37:41,130 --> 00:37:39,670 used in yoga are precisely the same 778 00:37:43,770 --> 00:37:41,140 terms that are being used in the 779 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:43,780 cosmology and represent in relation to a 780 00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:46,210 person what the term represents in 781 00:37:51,420 --> 00:37:49,510 relation to the macrocosm or microcosm 782 00:37:55,980 --> 00:37:51,430 in the cosmology have a daughter who 783 00:37:57,690 --> 00:37:55,990 studies yoga who will fairly often come 784 00:37:59,580 --> 00:37:57,700 to talk to me about some concept she's 785 00:38:01,020 --> 00:37:59,590 learned about and she'll start the 786 00:38:02,420 --> 00:38:01,030 sentence and I'll be able to finish it 787 00:38:05,580 --> 00:38:02,430 because it's all the same stuff 788 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:05,590 expressed in the same terms okay well I 789 00:38:13,109 --> 00:38:08,530 certainly am a great lover of doing yoga 790 00:38:15,870 --> 00:38:13,119 and understanding yogic principles so I 791 00:38:23,430 --> 00:38:15,880 guess we're on the same page with that 792 00:38:29,790 --> 00:38:23,440 as well so the the concepts and the the 793 00:38:34,380 --> 00:38:29,800 way in which these advances in culture 794 00:38:40,260 --> 00:38:34,390 and in understanding seem to all come of 795 00:38:42,330 --> 00:38:40,270 age in the world in a similar time as in 796 00:38:45,330 --> 00:38:42,340 you were talking about those four 797 00:38:50,340 --> 00:38:45,340 cardinal places with the names that were 798 00:38:54,030 --> 00:38:50,350 kind of similar from Egypt to South 799 00:38:59,580 --> 00:38:54,040 America and from the north and Ireland 800 00:39:03,180 --> 00:38:59,590 to China I believe you said so 801 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:03,190 so things came together at a particular 802 00:39:09,570 --> 00:39:07,330 point and people began advancing if you 803 00:39:11,940 --> 00:39:09,580 will if it is an advancement or at all 804 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:11,950 it's a way of looking at it it's sort of 805 00:39:19,740 --> 00:39:16,530 like thinking about the myth of 806 00:39:24,109 --> 00:39:19,750 progressivism being something to run 807 00:39:29,690 --> 00:39:24,119 after in a way something to look for but 808 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:29,700 so what do you suppose started this who 809 00:39:37,830 --> 00:39:33,570 or what do you suppose gave this 810 00:39:40,290 --> 00:39:37,840 information to the people humans well 811 00:39:42,750 --> 00:39:40,300 this comes this is a difficult question 812 00:39:45,630 --> 00:39:42,760 and it turns on the principle I was 813 00:39:48,370 --> 00:39:45,640 talking about of interpretations 814 00:39:51,730 --> 00:39:48,380 beginning with what the cultures say 815 00:39:53,410 --> 00:39:51,740 now I'm fortunate in that I have two 816 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:53,420 traditions that are quite similar to 817 00:39:57,220 --> 00:39:55,130 each other the Buddhist tradition and 818 00:39:59,530 --> 00:39:57,230 the Dogon tradition given in different 819 00:40:01,510 --> 00:39:59,540 languages so we know that one culture 820 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:01,520 didn't just adopt it wholesale from the 821 00:40:09,550 --> 00:40:06,770 other now both traditions are documented 822 00:40:10,870 --> 00:40:09,560 as being ancient we have good reason to 823 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:10,880 believe that they're both ancient 824 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:14,690 traditions so the suggestion is that 825 00:40:19,300 --> 00:40:17,090 each culture somehow managed to keep all 826 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:19,310 of these details straight all the way 827 00:40:23,740 --> 00:40:21,170 down through the centuries because a 828 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:23,750 modern authority on Buddhism is in 829 00:40:28,330 --> 00:40:25,970 agreement with modern authorities on the 830 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:28,340 Dogon tradition about what symbols mean 831 00:40:33,070 --> 00:40:30,410 about what various concepts represented 832 00:40:34,990 --> 00:40:33,080 and so forth so we we know because 833 00:40:37,089 --> 00:40:35,000 there's still a match that there hasn't 834 00:40:40,180 --> 00:40:37,099 been major changes in neither tradition 835 00:40:42,790 --> 00:40:40,190 now the problem is that the Buddhists 836 00:40:45,790 --> 00:40:42,800 flatly say that their most sacred 837 00:40:49,810 --> 00:40:45,800 symbols were gifted to humanity by a 838 00:40:51,220 --> 00:40:49,820 nonhuman source the Dogon say they take 839 00:40:53,650 --> 00:40:51,230 it a step further they said it was a 840 00:40:56,530 --> 00:40:53,660 nonhuman source but that it was also 841 00:41:00,570 --> 00:40:56,540 originally non material which is a 842 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:00,580 confusing question now those statements 843 00:41:05,650 --> 00:41:02,930 put a researcher like me in a hard 844 00:41:08,020 --> 00:41:05,660 position because I can take the stance 845 00:41:09,700 --> 00:41:08,030 that both cultures manage to keep all 846 00:41:12,070 --> 00:41:09,710 these complex details straight through 847 00:41:15,579 --> 00:41:12,080 that for thousands of years but then 848 00:41:19,780 --> 00:41:15,589 somehow misremembered in matching ways 849 00:41:21,940 --> 00:41:19,790 who they got it from right or I can say 850 00:41:24,460 --> 00:41:21,950 that they kept those last details 851 00:41:26,380 --> 00:41:24,470 straight - and now I have to allow the 852 00:41:30,130 --> 00:41:26,390 possibility that they actually did get 853 00:41:33,190 --> 00:41:30,140 it from a non-human source and perhaps a 854 00:41:35,470 --> 00:41:33,200 noncorporeal human source as well right 855 00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:35,480 and now when the Dogon sane non-material 856 00:41:42,250 --> 00:41:40,250 they're talking about a non material 857 00:41:44,170 --> 00:41:42,260 entity that was able to take action in a 858 00:41:48,970 --> 00:41:44,180 material frame in the same way that we 859 00:41:51,540 --> 00:41:48,980 see with in the Old Testament when Moses 860 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:51,550 is on the mountain there are cautions 861 00:41:55,660 --> 00:41:54,050 strict cautions presented about the 862 00:41:58,030 --> 00:41:55,670 Israelites not approaching the mountain 863 00:42:00,070 --> 00:41:58,040 too closely because of potentially bad 864 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:00,080 effects that could accrue to them from 865 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:01,010 being too close 866 00:42:06,609 --> 00:42:04,010 there this is happening in the material 867 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:06,619 frame the Dogon teachers had a similar 868 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:08,810 concern about what the long-term effects 869 00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:13,130 would be of them on us so their solution 870 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:16,880 to minimize that was to sequester eight 871 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:19,970 Dogon tribes people at a time in a 872 00:42:25,900 --> 00:42:23,530 remote place a place like skara brae 873 00:42:28,599 --> 00:42:25,910 give instruction to those eight people 874 00:42:30,970 --> 00:42:28,609 and then send them back to instruct 875 00:42:32,460 --> 00:42:30,980 their own tribe members now a skara brae 876 00:42:37,540 --> 00:42:32,470 there actually happened to be eight 877 00:42:39,700 --> 00:42:37,550 living chambers that comprised the 878 00:42:41,140 --> 00:42:39,710 village there so that those even though 879 00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:41,150 more logically it goes along with the 880 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:44,960 idea in cultures all over the world we 881 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:47,290 have mythical traditions of eight 882 00:42:51,970 --> 00:42:50,210 revered in quasi mythical ancestors who 883 00:42:54,790 --> 00:42:51,980 were the bringers of civilizing skills 884 00:42:58,030 --> 00:42:54,800 this is the mindset that both the dogged 885 00:43:00,820 --> 00:42:58,040 and the Buddhists have even the ancient 886 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:00,830 Egyptians flatly claimed that their 887 00:43:04,810 --> 00:43:02,570 written language was gifted to them by 888 00:43:07,150 --> 00:43:04,820 their gods so we have traditions of 889 00:43:09,490 --> 00:43:07,160 instruction all over the world in 890 00:43:11,890 --> 00:43:09,500 ancient time instruction by someone who 891 00:43:13,540 --> 00:43:11,900 if they if they did present us with 892 00:43:18,070 --> 00:43:13,550 these things was clearly more capable 893 00:43:21,609 --> 00:43:18,080 than we were so now what they're talking 894 00:43:24,030 --> 00:43:21,619 about is scientific concepts of how 895 00:43:25,630 --> 00:43:24,040 matter forms anybody who knew that 896 00:43:27,849 --> 00:43:25,640 certainly wouldn't have had a problem 897 00:43:31,210 --> 00:43:27,859 moving around on the planet in ancient 898 00:43:34,359 --> 00:43:31,220 times so mobility wasn't there their 899 00:43:37,870 --> 00:43:34,369 obstacle right right and that's shown 900 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:37,880 also in in the way that people went 901 00:43:43,210 --> 00:43:40,850 between Africa and Australia by 902 00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:43,220 different researchers of late that that 903 00:43:49,050 --> 00:43:46,250 was quite a going route back in the back 904 00:43:54,820 --> 00:43:49,060 in you know prehistoric times apparently 905 00:43:57,609 --> 00:43:54,830 alright but so it would seem to me in in 906 00:44:01,660 --> 00:43:57,619 these preliterate cultures that didn't 907 00:44:06,130 --> 00:44:01,670 have a theistic approach if you will it 908 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:06,140 seems to me that whoever was the 909 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:09,890 bringers of these ideas might later be 910 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:11,330 viewed as gods 911 00:44:19,779 --> 00:44:14,930 in retrospect by the post literate 912 00:44:23,140 --> 00:44:19,789 cultures that's true more often what I'm 913 00:44:27,220 --> 00:44:23,150 seeing is that processes are deifying 914 00:44:29,769 --> 00:44:27,230 I see but yes there certainly if there 915 00:44:32,470 --> 00:44:29,779 actually were physical beings here that 916 00:44:33,730 --> 00:44:32,480 people were interacting with is every 917 00:44:37,450 --> 00:44:33,740 reason to think that somebody would have 918 00:44:40,660 --> 00:44:37,460 deified them right if somebody if 919 00:44:43,930 --> 00:44:40,670 something somebody some being comes down 920 00:44:47,079 --> 00:44:43,940 from the heavens and starts talking to 921 00:44:51,250 --> 00:44:47,089 you about theoretical astrophysics 922 00:44:54,549 --> 00:44:51,260 beyond your knowledge it kind of it 923 00:44:59,140 --> 00:44:54,559 becomes a god-like or angelic in the way 924 00:45:02,789 --> 00:44:59,150 that people would perceive it today I 925 00:45:08,829 --> 00:45:02,799 have two thoughts on this first of all 926 00:45:11,859 --> 00:45:08,839 regarding gold gobekli tepe the makers 927 00:45:14,710 --> 00:45:11,869 the people the beings that constructed 928 00:45:18,069 --> 00:45:14,720 gobekli tepe are they a hundred percent 929 00:45:20,410 --> 00:45:18,079 known to be a hundred percent human well 930 00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:20,420 no one is sure who built it I mean in 931 00:45:24,279 --> 00:45:22,160 the tradition of you this was built by 932 00:45:28,809 --> 00:45:24,289 hunter-gatherers in the Fertile Crescent 933 00:45:31,210 --> 00:45:28,819 region it looks more likely to me that 934 00:45:33,519 --> 00:45:31,220 this was an instructional site 935 00:45:34,990 --> 00:45:33,529 the carvings of animals the beautiful 936 00:45:37,890 --> 00:45:35,000 carvings that were preserved because the 937 00:45:41,740 --> 00:45:37,900 site was buried for thousands of years 938 00:45:44,349 --> 00:45:41,750 each of the animal names if we look at 939 00:45:45,519 --> 00:45:44,359 the Egyptian hieroglyphic dictionary for 940 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:45,529 the names of the animals that are 941 00:45:52,539 --> 00:45:48,410 pictured each of those animal names is a 942 00:45:55,569 --> 00:45:52,549 homonym it's pronounced like a term of 943 00:45:58,960 --> 00:45:55,579 cosmology so you can imagine a person 944 00:46:01,269 --> 00:45:58,970 who didn't have a written language what 945 00:46:04,059 --> 00:46:01,279 but knew the names of animals walking up 946 00:46:05,650 --> 00:46:04,069 to one of these pillars and seeing a 947 00:46:07,299 --> 00:46:05,660 carved image on the pillar and 948 00:46:09,370 --> 00:46:07,309 understanding that this was the place 949 00:46:11,589 --> 00:46:09,380 where he was going to learn about a 950 00:46:13,569 --> 00:46:11,599 certain concept of cosmology that was 951 00:46:16,990 --> 00:46:13,579 named after that are named in common 952 00:46:19,690 --> 00:46:17,000 with that animal interesting and and and 953 00:46:22,839 --> 00:46:19,700 to put it to a very very kindergarten 954 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:22,849 level in other words a deer and what one 955 00:46:29,890 --> 00:46:27,290 holds dear right yes 956 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:29,900 and I'm it comes down to things as as 957 00:46:34,470 --> 00:46:32,210 obvious as a relationship between a 958 00:46:36,490 --> 00:46:34,480 hearth and the concept of a heart I 959 00:46:38,830 --> 00:46:36,500 don't language preserves some of these 960 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:38,840 these meanings and to show you how 961 00:46:44,140 --> 00:46:41,810 pervasive the symbolism is most people 962 00:46:46,090 --> 00:46:44,150 if I ask them what what they think and 963 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:46,100 how old represents very many will say 964 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:48,290 that it represents knowledge mm-hmm I 965 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:51,170 say to them that's five now at least 966 00:46:55,660 --> 00:46:52,970 five thousand-year-old symbolism that 967 00:46:56,500 --> 00:46:55,670 without having every study cosmology you 968 00:46:59,740 --> 00:46:56,510 understand 969 00:47:04,980 --> 00:46:59,750 that's how pervasive and how tenacious 970 00:47:08,590 --> 00:47:04,990 the symbolism is indeed Wow and to move 971 00:47:11,830 --> 00:47:08,600 you know to turn around a hundred and 972 00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:11,840 eighty degrees and look at ourselves in 973 00:47:23,230 --> 00:47:19,330 the present and the way the UFO mystery 974 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:23,240 faces us here is something in in very 975 00:47:29,020 --> 00:47:27,050 basic terms where people see something 976 00:47:31,210 --> 00:47:29,030 not old people don't always see the same 977 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:31,220 thing they get too close to it and 978 00:47:39,750 --> 00:47:34,490 sometimes they're injured and it seems 979 00:47:43,420 --> 00:47:39,760 to have both the aspects of material 980 00:47:45,820 --> 00:47:43,430 material craft which can disappear and 981 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:45,830 become immaterial at a moment's notice 982 00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:50,810 and furthermore is being turned by some 983 00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:54,650 people into a quasi religion that's true 984 00:48:01,990 --> 00:47:57,490 great true and I see do see connections 985 00:48:05,950 --> 00:48:02,000 to UFO encounters with the things that I 986 00:48:11,470 --> 00:48:05,960 study and it is a dimensional kind of a 987 00:48:12,820 --> 00:48:11,480 relationship or it's also non material 988 00:48:14,170 --> 00:48:12,830 to material universe kind of 989 00:48:18,870 --> 00:48:14,180 relationship the way things are 990 00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:18,880 described in the mindset of Sankhya 991 00:48:23,770 --> 00:48:21,920 universes form in pairs one of them 992 00:48:27,610 --> 00:48:23,780 being non material the other one being 993 00:48:30,510 --> 00:48:27,620 material the non material universe is 994 00:48:34,660 --> 00:48:30,520 described as having perfect knowledge 995 00:48:36,370 --> 00:48:34,670 but an inability to act and the maturity 996 00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:36,380 universe is described as having 997 00:48:39,430 --> 00:48:38,960 imperfect knowledge with full ability to 998 00:48:41,470 --> 00:48:39,440 act 999 00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:41,480 and so in the mindset of samkhya there 1000 00:48:46,630 --> 00:48:43,490 are routine attempts being made 1001 00:48:48,819 --> 00:48:46,640 from the non material side to 1002 00:48:52,140 --> 00:48:48,829 communicate knowledge and to induce 1003 00:48:55,030 --> 00:48:52,150 actions on the material side and those 1004 00:48:58,450 --> 00:48:55,040 attempts to take the form of very vivid 1005 00:49:03,309 --> 00:48:58,460 dreams of things that look like everyday 1006 00:49:06,730 --> 00:49:03,319 coincidences of life this odd behavior 1007 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:06,740 of animals through divination through 1008 00:49:10,809 --> 00:49:08,810 clairvoyance through many of the 1009 00:49:12,609 --> 00:49:10,819 paranormal processes in the fifth 1010 00:49:14,079 --> 00:49:12,619 process that we consider to be 1011 00:49:16,510 --> 00:49:14,089 paranormal 1012 00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:16,520 samkhya sees these as attempts at 1013 00:49:20,829 --> 00:49:19,250 communication part of the difficulty for 1014 00:49:23,010 --> 00:49:20,839 somebody on the material side is 1015 00:49:26,460 --> 00:49:23,020 learning how to distinguish between 1016 00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:26,470 which of those actually have 1017 00:49:33,309 --> 00:49:30,250 significance and which ones don't 1018 00:49:35,740 --> 00:49:33,319 and that comes back I mean we that what 1019 00:49:37,990 --> 00:49:35,750 you just talked about is basically the 1020 00:49:41,710 --> 00:49:38,000 meat of shattered reality all those 1021 00:49:45,190 --> 00:49:41,720 various different categories from the 1022 00:49:47,710 --> 00:49:45,200 dreams to the to the actions of animals 1023 00:49:52,329 --> 00:49:47,720 etc this is what we talk about a whole 1024 00:49:55,569 --> 00:49:52,339 lot on shattered reality here but what 1025 00:49:56,980 --> 00:49:55,579 about if there's more than one other if 1026 00:50:06,190 --> 00:49:56,990 you know what I'm saying 1027 00:50:07,510 --> 00:50:06,200 that's always been my suspicion uh okay 1028 00:50:11,380 --> 00:50:07,520 when we talk about the way these 1029 00:50:13,930 --> 00:50:11,390 universes form ours is described as 1030 00:50:17,290 --> 00:50:13,940 being the fourth of seven pairs of 1031 00:50:20,370 --> 00:50:17,300 University and those pairs of universes 1032 00:50:25,510 --> 00:50:20,380 the way they're described as forming 1033 00:50:28,510 --> 00:50:25,520 produce a helix so the suggestion is 1034 00:50:31,329 --> 00:50:28,520 that the potential for life because the 1035 00:50:33,220 --> 00:50:31,339 helix is the shape of DNA the suggestion 1036 00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:33,230 is the potential for life is built right 1037 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:36,730 into the structure of the system okay 1038 00:50:45,339 --> 00:50:41,930 okay so the non-material side is being 1039 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:45,349 presented as a consciousness as having 1040 00:50:50,829 --> 00:50:48,170 consciousness as a matter of fact when 1041 00:50:52,039 --> 00:50:50,839 we get to the bottom of esoteric 1042 00:50:54,049 --> 00:50:52,049 Buddhism one of 1043 00:50:57,079 --> 00:50:54,059 the final stages of esoteric Buddhism is 1044 00:50:59,749 --> 00:50:57,089 coming to a visceral understanding that 1045 00:51:02,179 --> 00:50:59,759 it's all the same consciousness even 1046 00:51:04,669 --> 00:51:02,189 though it's playing out on levels one 1047 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:04,679 way of explaining that is there are 1048 00:51:09,949 --> 00:51:07,650 certain dynamics that underlie how 1049 00:51:11,689 --> 00:51:09,959 matter forms one of those is the dynamic 1050 00:51:14,569 --> 00:51:11,699 of what's called a dipole it's an 1051 00:51:17,959 --> 00:51:14,579 oscillation it's a two it's what a 1052 00:51:21,679 --> 00:51:17,969 magnetism uses its two centers of energy 1053 00:51:24,229 --> 00:51:21,689 that draw together or push apart okay 1054 00:51:26,779 --> 00:51:24,239 that dynamic replays itself all the way 1055 00:51:30,589 --> 00:51:26,789 up and down the scale from the smallest 1056 00:51:32,479 --> 00:51:30,599 microcosm to the largest macrocosm the 1057 00:51:35,209 --> 00:51:32,489 same thing is true about consciousness 1058 00:51:38,599 --> 00:51:35,219 that just as we we can imagine the 1059 00:51:42,650 --> 00:51:38,609 particles of matter are subsets of a 1060 00:51:45,919 --> 00:51:42,660 grand source a wave-like source of 1061 00:51:48,469 --> 00:51:45,929 matter so individual consciousness is 1062 00:51:52,999 --> 00:51:48,479 seen as subdivisions of a grand 1063 00:51:55,939 --> 00:51:53,009 consciousness and in some kids view that 1064 00:51:58,400 --> 00:51:55,949 grand consciousness isn't deified it's 1065 00:52:02,539 --> 00:51:58,410 just recognized as being there but it's 1066 00:52:05,779 --> 00:52:02,549 it's treated on most often on an eye to 1067 00:52:09,650 --> 00:52:05,789 eye level with our consciousness that 1068 00:52:13,130 --> 00:52:09,660 there's not a sense that one is 1069 00:52:15,559 --> 00:52:13,140 hierarchically above the other in the 1070 00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:15,569 Dogon culture the Dogon tradition is a 1071 00:52:20,209 --> 00:52:17,729 very non judgmental tradition where 1072 00:52:21,969 --> 00:52:20,219 later traditions like Christianity see 1073 00:52:25,989 --> 00:52:21,979 good versus evil 1074 00:52:30,589 --> 00:52:25,999 the Dogon see truth versus error 1075 00:52:33,650 --> 00:52:30,599 they don't even stigmatize the concept 1076 00:52:35,150 --> 00:52:33,660 of error if you if you try to arrive at 1077 00:52:37,489 --> 00:52:35,160 a truth about something and you're wrong 1078 00:52:40,759 --> 00:52:37,499 all that means to the Dogon is that you 1079 00:52:43,910 --> 00:52:40,769 need to try again it that reminds me a 1080 00:52:46,249 --> 00:52:43,920 great deal of something that the 1081 00:52:49,669 --> 00:52:46,259 philosopher Eckhart Tolle that talks 1082 00:52:54,859 --> 00:52:49,679 about when and he goes back into the 1083 00:52:57,349 --> 00:52:54,869 Greek etymology of the word sin which he 1084 00:52:59,809 --> 00:52:57,359 says and I haven't studied this in 1085 00:53:03,199 --> 00:52:59,819 enough depth to know if it's actually 1086 00:53:04,950 --> 00:53:03,209 true but I suspect it is that the word 1087 00:53:07,890 --> 00:53:04,960 sin comes from 1088 00:53:11,130 --> 00:53:07,900 seeing the target so that when a person 1089 00:53:13,650 --> 00:53:11,140 goes forward and if in Greek they would 1090 00:53:16,650 --> 00:53:13,660 be said to have committed a sin this is 1091 00:53:18,380 --> 00:53:16,660 an ancient Greek of course that they 1092 00:53:21,690 --> 00:53:18,390 would have missed the target not 1093 00:53:25,020 --> 00:53:21,700 necessarily that sin would condemn them 1094 00:53:26,609 --> 00:53:25,030 you see right right and if if you don't 1095 00:53:28,829 --> 00:53:26,619 have the opposition between good and 1096 00:53:30,930 --> 00:53:28,839 evil then certain other concepts fall 1097 00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:30,940 out there's no foundation for them that 1098 00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:32,650 you can't very well have a heaven and 1099 00:53:38,460 --> 00:53:34,930 hell if you're not looking at things as 1100 00:53:40,140 --> 00:53:38,470 being good and evil well there's a lot 1101 00:53:42,540 --> 00:53:40,150 of people who are breathing a sigh of 1102 00:53:46,470 --> 00:53:42,550 relief right now I have two hearings 1103 00:53:51,530 --> 00:53:46,480 that no but III I agree I agree so now 1104 00:53:54,839 --> 00:53:51,540 in the mindset of sound yeah the the 1105 00:53:56,910 --> 00:53:54,849 permanent seeds of material creation and 1106 00:53:59,880 --> 00:53:56,920 of material consciousness actually 1107 00:54:02,430 --> 00:53:59,890 reside on the non material side in the 1108 00:54:05,250 --> 00:54:02,440 same much the same way that if you're 1109 00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:05,260 watching a television show reality 1110 00:54:09,089 --> 00:54:07,330 really for you really existing in your 1111 00:54:11,730 --> 00:54:09,099 living room where you're watching the 1112 00:54:13,950 --> 00:54:11,740 show it doesn't exist in the go and so 1113 00:54:19,079 --> 00:54:13,960 when the show ends nothing has really 1114 00:54:21,390 --> 00:54:19,089 ended that's the way that this tradition 1115 00:54:23,220 --> 00:54:21,400 looks at concepts of life and life and 1116 00:54:27,030 --> 00:54:23,230 death that actually uses it uses the 1117 00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:27,040 term in some cultures episode to refer 1118 00:54:31,980 --> 00:54:30,250 to a life and so certain things revert 1119 00:54:35,550 --> 00:54:31,990 back to the non material side at the 1120 00:54:38,370 --> 00:54:35,560 point of a death so death is not seen as 1121 00:54:41,849 --> 00:54:38,380 an ending of anything it's really just 1122 00:54:44,910 --> 00:54:41,859 the finishing up of an episode so the 1123 00:54:47,790 --> 00:54:44,920 you you drop one meatsuit and go off 1124 00:54:50,970 --> 00:54:47,800 somewhere else and maybe catch another 1125 00:54:52,859 --> 00:54:50,980 meatsuit on their return or not yes now 1126 00:54:56,750 --> 00:54:52,869 interestingly the Dogon don't have a 1127 00:55:00,829 --> 00:54:56,760 concept of reincarnation uh-huh that 1128 00:55:03,570 --> 00:55:00,839 they flatly say that the only aspects of 1129 00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:03,580 reincarnation that they recognize have 1130 00:55:09,150 --> 00:55:05,530 to do with the traits that are inherited 1131 00:55:12,450 --> 00:55:09,160 by offspring I see that just as you you 1132 00:55:15,390 --> 00:55:12,460 look at your grandchild and and see the 1133 00:55:17,990 --> 00:55:15,400 traits of your grandfather maybe your 1134 00:55:23,700 --> 00:55:21,510 we're the dogon place the action of 1135 00:55:27,780 --> 00:55:23,710 reincarnation okay 1136 00:55:32,930 --> 00:55:27,790 so just to reiterate what where do you 1137 00:55:37,500 --> 00:55:32,940 think the human animal was at prior to 1138 00:55:39,839 --> 00:55:37,510 go back Li Pepe where what what was the 1139 00:55:43,109 --> 00:55:39,849 nature of the human animal I mean as I 1140 00:55:46,410 --> 00:55:43,119 had said I'm part Neanderthal there's 1141 00:55:52,349 --> 00:55:46,420 Homo Sinise's there's a number of other 1142 00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:52,359 quasi human animals that probably 1143 00:55:57,950 --> 00:55:54,730 interbred with humans as the Neanderthal 1144 00:56:03,690 --> 00:55:57,960 did modern humans who were probably 1145 00:56:07,819 --> 00:56:03,700 cro-magnon people were these pre Ice Age 1146 00:56:11,250 --> 00:56:07,829 people in your view well the Ice Age 1147 00:56:15,510 --> 00:56:11,260 serves as a kind of gigantic block to 1148 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:15,520 evidence and so we don't really have we 1149 00:56:19,770 --> 00:56:18,010 have very few ways of tracking direct 1150 00:56:21,930 --> 00:56:19,780 indications of what happens before the 1151 00:56:23,460 --> 00:56:21,940 Ice Age but we do have some references 1152 00:56:28,470 --> 00:56:23,470 especially from the Dogon that help us 1153 00:56:29,970 --> 00:56:28,480 out in ancient Egypt they had very fond 1154 00:56:34,079 --> 00:56:29,980 memories of something they called the 1155 00:56:37,890 --> 00:56:34,089 first time capital f calf capital T in 1156 00:56:39,660 --> 00:56:37,900 Buddhism they recall the first time that 1157 00:56:42,630 --> 00:56:39,670 knowledge was passed to humanity by a 1158 00:56:45,059 --> 00:56:42,640 Buddha at a place that they refer to as 1159 00:56:47,250 --> 00:56:45,069 vulture peak which is a pretty good 1160 00:56:50,670 --> 00:56:47,260 description for go back to the ma this 1161 00:56:53,720 --> 00:56:50,680 was there is a vulture peak in India 1162 00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:53,730 that has been the sort of a an a 1163 00:57:00,450 --> 00:56:56,890 memorial to that ancient place which no 1164 00:57:03,720 --> 00:57:00,460 one is quite sure where it was but we're 1165 00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:03,730 in the same place what the Dogon say is 1166 00:57:09,540 --> 00:57:06,010 they recall a time when humanity was 1167 00:57:11,849 --> 00:57:09,550 restored the culture so the implication 1168 00:57:14,010 --> 00:57:11,859 on the Dogon side is that there was a 1169 00:57:20,250 --> 00:57:14,020 period of the prior high culture before 1170 00:57:24,089 --> 00:57:20,260 this era of instruction so my best guess 1171 00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:24,099 is that prior to the ice age that there 1172 00:57:28,020 --> 00:57:26,410 actually were actually was high culture 1173 00:57:30,980 --> 00:57:28,030 in many of the ways that some of our 1174 00:57:33,950 --> 00:57:30,990 myths say there's a 1175 00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:33,960 perspective from which we can believe 1176 00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:37,770 that Atlantis was a real place some of 1177 00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:41,130 the evidences is ambiguous because the 1178 00:57:48,500 --> 00:57:45,170 word move refers to a mythical 1179 00:57:51,790 --> 00:57:48,510 civilization but it's also a term that 1180 00:57:54,350 --> 00:57:51,800 many of the cultures I study used means 1181 00:57:57,050 --> 00:57:54,360 ancestor and so when they talk about 1182 00:57:58,970 --> 00:57:57,060 move in a fond way they might not be 1183 00:58:04,940 --> 00:57:58,980 referring to a place they might be 1184 00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:04,950 referring to a group of ancestors so 1185 00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:07,170 this this ultimately falls in the stack 1186 00:58:10,490 --> 00:58:08,850 of open questions for me these are 1187 00:58:12,980 --> 00:58:10,500 things where I have indications the 1188 00:58:14,930 --> 00:58:12,990 point one direction or another but I 1189 00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:14,940 don't have an absolute fix that I can 1190 00:58:22,100 --> 00:58:17,760 anchor down as to what the truth of the 1191 00:58:23,630 --> 00:58:22,110 matter is the hopeful thing is that very 1192 00:58:26,090 --> 00:58:23,640 many of the things that I write about 1193 00:58:28,820 --> 00:58:26,100 and do try to anchor down are things 1194 00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:28,830 that for many years represented open 1195 00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:30,210 questions for me I didn't have enough 1196 00:58:33,859 --> 00:58:31,650 knowledge at the time to be able to pull 1197 00:58:35,810 --> 00:58:33,869 it together eventually the right piece 1198 00:58:38,810 --> 00:58:35,820 falls into place and suddenly a whole 1199 00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:38,820 book books worth of information comes 1200 00:58:42,890 --> 00:58:40,290 out the last couple of books I've 1201 00:58:44,660 --> 00:58:42,900 written the material for the book what I 1202 00:58:45,980 --> 00:58:44,670 already had researched I just didn't 1203 00:58:48,950 --> 00:58:45,990 realize it all went together in a 1204 00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:48,960 particular way so one book took three 1205 00:58:53,930 --> 00:58:51,090 months essentially to write another one 1206 00:58:56,210 --> 00:58:53,940 took roughly six weeks right the basic 1207 00:58:59,599 --> 00:58:56,220 of the material because all these loose 1208 00:59:00,770 --> 00:58:59,609 ends tie together well so what's up next 1209 00:59:03,020 --> 00:59:00,780 for you 1210 00:59:05,090 --> 00:59:03,030 so I'm presently working on a book 1211 00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:05,100 called the plan of the ancient cosmology 1212 00:59:14,150 --> 00:59:11,490 and the outlook of that book is to try 1213 00:59:16,910 --> 00:59:14,160 to describe in overview what kinds of 1214 00:59:19,790 --> 00:59:16,920 choices someone must have been making to 1215 00:59:22,370 --> 00:59:19,800 put this cosmology together to talk 1216 00:59:26,270 --> 00:59:22,380 about the symbolism about the choice of 1217 00:59:28,070 --> 00:59:26,280 metaphors that are the methods of as you 1218 00:59:31,490 --> 00:59:28,080 say remembering things without red 1219 00:59:34,849 --> 00:59:31,500 language the way that things are 1220 00:59:38,780 --> 00:59:34,859 represented the way that symbolism works 1221 00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:38,790 how similar symbolism is really the it 1222 00:59:44,660 --> 00:59:40,890 behaves like the language of cosmology 1223 00:59:49,770 --> 00:59:44,670 it also behaves like the route 1224 00:59:52,010 --> 00:59:49,780 language of consciousness one way of 1225 00:59:54,300 --> 00:59:52,020 understanding that is when you go to 1226 00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:54,310 dolphin shows at a place there are 1227 01:00:00,480 --> 00:59:56,530 places like ocean world or sea world in 1228 01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:00,490 in Florida sometimes they give a pair of 1229 01:00:04,650 --> 01:00:03,130 dolphins sort of freestyling time and 1230 01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:04,660 the Dolphins will leap up into the air 1231 01:00:08,790 --> 01:00:06,610 perform some kind of a trick and then 1232 01:00:11,210 --> 01:00:08,800 dive under the water and then leap back 1233 01:00:14,130 --> 01:00:11,220 up and perform another kind of a trick 1234 01:00:15,750 --> 01:00:14,140 somehow in the short amount of time that 1235 01:00:18,030 --> 01:00:15,760 they're underwater they managed to 1236 01:00:19,500 --> 01:00:18,040 communicate to each other what that next 1237 01:00:22,890 --> 01:00:19,510 trick is going to be so they both 1238 01:00:25,730 --> 01:00:22,900 perform the same trick smart they are 1239 01:00:28,350 --> 01:00:25,740 very smart yes now the one of the 1240 01:00:34,070 --> 01:00:28,360 theories of how that happens is that 1241 01:00:36,780 --> 01:00:34,080 they're able to use basically sonar to 1242 01:00:39,300 --> 01:00:36,790 the image to create an image like a 1243 01:00:40,410 --> 01:00:39,310 symbolic image that represents the thing 1244 01:00:42,030 --> 01:00:40,420 that they want to do next 1245 01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:42,040 that they're there our method of 1246 01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:43,570 communicating with each other may be 1247 01:00:49,740 --> 01:00:46,690 effectively a symbolic one now we see 1248 01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:49,750 the same thing happening in UFO 1249 01:01:00,510 --> 01:00:58,980 responses that UFO witnesses report 1250 01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:00,520 again and again and again again even 1251 01:01:05,130 --> 01:01:01,690 when they haven't heard other witnesses 1252 01:01:08,670 --> 01:01:05,140 reported that follow the lines of some 1253 01:01:13,980 --> 01:01:08,680 ancient symbolism every cosmological 1254 01:01:16,410 --> 01:01:13,990 term carries multiple meanings and they 1255 01:01:18,450 --> 01:01:16,420 are they're discrete meanings so they're 1256 01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:18,460 like a cluster of separated meetings 1257 01:01:22,620 --> 01:01:20,650 where you can't yes can't reasonably 1258 01:01:24,090 --> 01:01:22,630 guess the secondary meanings just 1259 01:01:26,820 --> 01:01:24,100 because you know one of the maze and 1260 01:01:32,370 --> 01:01:26,830 these clusters are part of what allow me 1261 01:01:35,610 --> 01:01:32,380 to correlate words between cultures it's 1262 01:01:38,220 --> 01:01:35,620 an example the name of the hidden God 1263 01:01:39,870 --> 01:01:38,230 for the dog and this ama the hidden God 1264 01:01:42,810 --> 01:01:39,880 in Egypt is amen 1265 01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:42,820 but both words also mean to grasp or to 1266 01:01:47,610 --> 01:01:45,490 hold firm or to establish even the 1267 01:01:52,260 --> 01:01:47,620 Hebrew word amen comes from a root that 1268 01:01:54,270 --> 01:01:52,270 means to establish so these same kinds 1269 01:01:56,850 --> 01:01:54,280 of clustered meanings turn up in the UFO 1270 01:02:00,130 --> 01:01:56,860 encounters where 1271 01:02:02,170 --> 01:02:00,140 that when a UFO would seem to move away 1272 01:02:04,270 --> 01:02:02,180 its associated with the color red but it 1273 01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:04,280 seemed to rise up it's associated with I 1274 01:02:09,250 --> 01:02:06,850 think the color white or the color blue 1275 01:02:12,610 --> 01:02:09,260 there are certain strong feelings that 1276 01:02:15,790 --> 01:02:12,620 the witness reports feeling at the time 1277 01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:15,800 they see certain actions happen a woman 1278 01:02:20,100 --> 01:02:18,170 steps out onto her porch and she sees 1279 01:02:22,210 --> 01:02:20,110 three gray aliens 1280 01:02:23,650 --> 01:02:22,220 they don't a--first know that she's 1281 01:02:26,620 --> 01:02:23,660 there but then they turn and they see 1282 01:02:29,290 --> 01:02:26,630 her and they quickly depart but when 1283 01:02:32,260 --> 01:02:29,300 they depart she doesn't see three grey 1284 01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:32,270 aliens apart she sees three dear depart 1285 01:02:37,570 --> 01:02:35,210 yes the ancient Egyptian word for to 1286 01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:37,580 leave in haste is a homonym for the word 1287 01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:41,810 that means dear so it says as if there's 1288 01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:44,090 a sort of a dimensional or a non 1289 01:02:49,110 --> 01:02:46,010 material material translation a 1290 01:02:51,790 --> 01:02:49,120 telepathic translation going on where 1291 01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:51,800 what the intention on the non material 1292 01:02:57,220 --> 01:02:53,690 side or the thought on the non material 1293 01:03:00,880 --> 01:02:57,230 side is perceived on the on the material 1294 01:03:04,330 --> 01:03:00,890 side and in a translated way and the 1295 01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:04,340 translations are consistent in so very 1296 01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:06,890 very often if you look at all these UFO 1297 01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:09,530 cases you can you can spot I have a list 1298 01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:12,290 of maybe three or four pages of examples 1299 01:03:16,930 --> 01:03:15,050 where that's true where but what they 1300 01:03:20,050 --> 01:03:16,940 report having witnessed goes along with 1301 01:03:23,260 --> 01:03:20,060 these clusters of meanings the owl is a 1302 01:03:24,700 --> 01:03:23,270 one that's been studied lately I can't 1303 01:03:27,730 --> 01:03:24,710 remember the name of the gentleman who's 1304 01:03:31,630 --> 01:03:27,740 written two books about UFO encounters 1305 01:03:34,330 --> 01:03:31,640 in the owl and John Mac did a lot of the 1306 01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:34,340 studies he's a psychiatrist and but 1307 01:03:40,930 --> 01:03:37,970 Hopkins wrote yes other books the owl 1308 01:03:43,710 --> 01:03:40,940 goes along with Egyptian words that mean 1309 01:03:46,330 --> 01:03:43,720 to comfort it could very well be that 1310 01:03:49,330 --> 01:03:46,340 and these these owls are not couldn't 1311 01:03:51,100 --> 01:03:49,340 possibly be real owls because very often 1312 01:03:56,350 --> 01:03:51,110 they're four feet high and there is no 1313 01:03:57,880 --> 01:03:56,360 rule that's four feet high so the people 1314 01:03:59,890 --> 01:03:57,890 who are reporting the things it could be 1315 01:04:01,690 --> 01:03:59,900 that whoever's on the non-material side 1316 01:04:05,770 --> 01:04:01,700 of the interaction is actively trying to 1317 01:04:08,650 --> 01:04:05,780 comfort them there's a situation where a 1318 01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:08,660 witness reported three slender aliens 1319 01:04:12,700 --> 01:04:10,970 walking across the field approaching is 1320 01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:12,710 in the middle of the night and he knew 1321 01:04:19,150 --> 01:04:16,970 he was gonna black out well the Egyptian 1322 01:04:23,710 --> 01:04:19,160 word to approach with caution 1323 01:04:27,690 --> 01:04:23,720 also means to faint aha well this is 1324 01:04:31,509 --> 01:04:27,700 this is very very very fascinating and I 1325 01:04:35,289 --> 01:04:31,519 also want to mention another thought 1326 01:04:38,620 --> 01:04:35,299 about the alien is that sometimes our 1327 01:04:41,349 --> 01:04:38,630 mind the thing about people people 1328 01:04:44,259 --> 01:04:41,359 believe that they're made in God's image 1329 01:04:47,349 --> 01:04:44,269 or so we're led to believe but I think 1330 01:04:49,599 --> 01:04:47,359 we make God in our image and I think 1331 01:04:53,979 --> 01:04:49,609 that something that is smarter than us 1332 01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:53,989 can make us see them however they wish 1333 01:04:59,499 --> 01:04:56,210 to make us see them through whatever 1334 01:05:03,220 --> 01:04:59,509 memory going into our repository of 1335 01:05:05,710 --> 01:05:03,230 images and selecting a suitable memory 1336 01:05:06,430 --> 01:05:05,720 to that might be that might be true as a 1337 01:05:09,519 --> 01:05:06,440 second 1338 01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:09,529 someone who perfectly understood what 1339 01:05:16,210 --> 01:05:14,450 these traumatic translations are that if 1340 01:05:19,089 --> 01:05:16,220 they wanted to represent a particular 1341 01:05:20,979 --> 01:05:19,099 thing perhaps simply by feeling or 1342 01:05:22,900 --> 01:05:20,989 strongly thinking about the 1343 01:05:25,900 --> 01:05:22,910 corresponding it the non-material 1344 01:05:28,779 --> 01:05:25,910 equivalent of what that translated image 1345 01:05:31,569 --> 01:05:28,789 is perhaps they can cause us to see that 1346 01:05:35,049 --> 01:05:31,579 image if by trying to comfort us they 1347 01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:35,059 can make us see an owl maybe by feeding 1348 01:05:38,890 --> 01:05:36,410 another strong feeling they can make us 1349 01:05:41,559 --> 01:05:38,900 see something else well this this has 1350 01:05:44,499 --> 01:05:41,569 just been incredibly interesting a 1351 01:05:46,930 --> 01:05:44,509 layered layered scranton here with 1352 01:05:47,529 --> 01:05:46,940 shattered reality podcast this is 1353 01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:47,539 firoozeh 1354 01:05:52,900 --> 01:05:50,450 we're going to have to say goodbye for 1355 01:05:55,630 --> 01:05:52,910 today but we would really like to extend 1356 01:05:58,120 --> 01:05:55,640 you an invitation to come back on and 1357 01:06:01,479 --> 01:05:58,130 maybe discuss something like the 1358 01:06:05,499 --> 01:06:01,489 Velikovsky heresies or some other aspect 1359 01:06:07,660 --> 01:06:05,509 of your various studies which are really 1360 01:06:11,049 --> 01:06:07,670 just no end of fascinating we hardly 1361 01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:11,059 even got started today and you've left 1362 01:06:16,509 --> 01:06:13,730 me with so many more questions and a lot 1363 01:06:18,759 --> 01:06:16,519 of interesting thought to come so thank 1364 01:06:20,529 --> 01:06:18,769 you so much lead scranton well thank you 1365 01:06:21,700 --> 01:06:20,539 very much I really appreciate the chance 1366 01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:21,710 to discuss these things 1367 01:06:27,750 --> 01:06:23,650 our pleasure entirely 1368 01:06:31,650 --> 01:06:27,760 bye for now well ladies and gentlemen 1369 01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:31,660 that was Laird Scranton and he is just 1370 01:06:38,180 --> 01:06:34,330 really such a rich repository of 1371 01:06:42,570 --> 01:06:38,190 knowledge our next guest if all things 1372 01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:42,580 if all things pan out as we would like 1373 01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:46,570 them to who will be mark Bowe kuzey who 1374 01:06:51,300 --> 01:06:48,730 is with the Wind Bridge Institute and 1375 01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:51,310 who was working with studies of 1376 01:06:58,500 --> 01:06:55,410 intentionality amongst other things and 1377 01:07:02,570 --> 01:06:58,510 I would like to remind everyone to 1378 01:07:08,030 --> 01:07:02,580 please like us on Facebook 1379 01:07:12,210 --> 01:07:08,040 like us at our two websites which are 1380 01:07:16,020 --> 01:07:12,220 shattered reality podcast.com and 1381 01:07:20,850 --> 01:07:16,030 shattered reality podcast wordpress.com 1382 01:07:24,390 --> 01:07:20,860 and be sure to check us out on YouTube 1383 01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:24,400 and iTunes where we have a presence on 1384 01:07:29,310 --> 01:07:26,410 both of those places and maybe on 1385 01:07:32,430 --> 01:07:29,320 sketcher I'm not sure we have to go back 1386 01:07:36,390 --> 01:07:32,440 and look at that but please feel free to 1387 01:07:39,140 --> 01:07:36,400 contact us if you have a listener 1388 01:07:42,990 --> 01:07:39,150 experience that you would like to share 1389 01:07:44,390 --> 01:07:43,000 you can contact us on any of those those 1390 01:07:47,100 --> 01:07:44,400 places 1391 01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:47,110 preferably you would contact us on one 1392 01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:49,690 of our two actual websites and I'm going 1393 01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:52,410 to mention those again shattered reality 1394 01:08:01,710 --> 01:07:57,250 podcast calm and shattered reality 1395 01:08:05,100 --> 01:08:01,720 podcast the wordpress.com so until next 1396 01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:05,110 time I'm going to say goodbye for myself 1397 01:08:22,670 --> 01:08:10,930 and our unseen helpers here so goodbye